Should the lazy be made to work?

Parliamentary democratic deficits, lazy representatives, and trade deficits. Discuss all these issues here.
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Saxony
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RE: Should the lazy be made to work?

Post by Saxony » Sat May 16, 2009 2:27 am

[quote=Lad]
And if they refuse have their benefits slashed.
Nope, I don't mean those genuinely in need. I'd bend over backwards to help them out and I'm more than happy for my taxes to be spent on them.

Some people argue that to enforce such a scheme isn't viable. That isn't the point IMO. Even if it cost MORE than it was worth I would still agree with it. If people want a living they earn it. Whether that is sorting out rubbish for recycling or breaking stones to help build railway tracks and those with minor problems perhaps should be given typing jobs or something like that. Perhaps not quite what David had in mind, but I totally agree with his principle.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7176032.stm
[/quote]


Depends. Do you offer having good paying jobs with health insurance for them?

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Dirk
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RE: Should the lazy be made to work?

Post by Dirk » Sat May 16, 2009 2:46 pm

[quote=mongoman]
You're using a computer are you not? To me, that's a luxury.
[/quote]

It belongs to my whole family, it's old, costs to maintain. So many people i know have only access to computers in the local library.

[quote=mongoman]
If you increase the minimum wage, employers will hire less workers, and force them to work above their capabilities, which will cause flaws in the business.
[/quote]

If you're not using a capitalist system, a minimum wage would not be necessary. But, since we are, i'll deal with that part.

There'll be health and safety regs against that. And if there aren't, there definitely should be. If they could, the capitalists would work us to death however much we're paid.

If employers hire less workers, they've still got a benefit system to fall back on. That's the entire point. The considerably higher minimum wage will be something they'll want to work towards and they'll actively seek jobs.

The capitalist businesses will hire them when they expand their trade and when their market points rise. That's the time when businesses employ.

Thus, it can only ultimately benefit the economy, the workers and the businesses themselves.

You said it yourself, if they worked the workers beyond their capabilities, it would create flaws in the businesses. Capitalists aren't stupid, just self-serving.
Working Class And F***ing Proud!

A, B, C, D - Eviscerate the bourgeoisie.

Freedom Or Death. One solution:
R-E-V-O-L-U-T-I-O-N!

All Power To The People!

mongoman
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RE: Should the lazy be made to work?

Post by mongoman » Sat May 16, 2009 3:37 pm

If you're not using a capitalist system, a minimum wage would not be necessary. But, since we are, i'll deal with that part.

There'll be health and safety regs against that. And if there aren't, there definitely should be. If they could, the capitalists would work us to death however much we're paid.

If employers hire less workers, they've still got a benefit system to fall back on. That's the entire point. The considerably higher minimum wage will be something they'll want to work towards and they'll actively seek jobs.

The capitalist businesses will hire them when they expand their trade and when their market points rise. That's the time when businesses employ.

Thus, it can only ultimately benefit the economy, the workers and the businesses themselves.

You said it yourself, if they worked the workers beyond their capabilities, it would create flaws in the businesses. Capitalists aren't stupid, just self-serving.
You're missing the point. If the owner of a business, (small businesses in particular) have to pay their workers more, that means that they're going to be making less money, which means that they will be forced to employ less workers, and these workers will have to work harder. Your idea of a higher minimum wage is wrong because you seem to think that the workers will be doing the same work for higher wages, this isn't what will happen.

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Dirk
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RE: Should the lazy be made to work?

Post by Dirk » Mon May 18, 2009 9:51 am

[quote=mongoman]
You're missing the point. If the owner of a business, (small businesses in particular) have to pay their workers more, that means that they're going to be making less money...
[/quote]

As i said, capitalists aren't stupid. They will see that they're going to have to reduce the salaries of the higher-ups slightly, in order to keep the graphs on a steady growth equilibrium. When there's an easy solution, they aren't going to choose the path to financial oblivion. (Oh, it feels so good, manipulating the capitalists, for once).

[quote=mongoman]
...which means that they will be forced to employ less workers, and these workers will have to work harder. Your idea of a higher minimum wage is wrong because you seem to think that the workers will be doing the same work for higher wages, this isn't what will happen.
[/quote]

At first, i thought you had me there! But you're forgetting one vital component - trade unions. Their jobs are to protect the livelihoods of the workers. If they're being overworked, you bet your arse they'll be stepping in.
Working Class And F***ing Proud!

A, B, C, D - Eviscerate the bourgeoisie.

Freedom Or Death. One solution:
R-E-V-O-L-U-T-I-O-N!

All Power To The People!

mongoman
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RE: Should the lazy be made to work?

Post by mongoman » Mon May 18, 2009 4:13 pm

Not all workers are a part of trade unions, and trade unions won't always intervene on individual cases.

Just to clarify, I'm talking about small businesses here, not big corporations.

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Dirk
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RE: Should the lazy be made to work?

Post by Dirk » Tue May 19, 2009 1:33 pm

[quote=mongoman]
Not all workers are a part of trade unions, and trade unions won't always intervene on individual cases.
[/quote]

True, but i'd recommend a worker to be part of one. Especially since they exist to protect his or her rights.

Well, while action won't be taken, i'm sure the shop steward would mention it.

[quote=mongoman]
Just to clarify, I'm talking about small businesses here, not big corporations.
[/quote]

In which case, the shop steward would be even more likely to put more importance on protecting individuals.

And unions cover an entire industry, not just one business.
Working Class And F***ing Proud!

A, B, C, D - Eviscerate the bourgeoisie.

Freedom Or Death. One solution:
R-E-V-O-L-U-T-I-O-N!

All Power To The People!

code1
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RE: Should the lazy be made to work?

Post by code1 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:17 pm

there are lots of people who work and they are lazy,causing billions in lost revenue,we need easier jobs,more laid back, so lazy people of all walks of life working or not working,will give 100%of there time when on the job.

rhadden
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RE: Should the lazy be made to work?

Post by rhadden » Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:19 am

[quote=Lad]
And if they refuse have their benefits slashed.
Nope, I don't mean those genuinely in need. I'd bend over backwards to help them out and I'm more than happy for my taxes to be spent on them.

Some people argue that to enforce such a scheme isn't viable. That isn't the point IMO. Even if it cost MORE than it was worth I would still agree with it. If people want a living they earn it. Whether that is sorting out rubbish for recycling or breaking stones to help build railway tracks and those with minor problems perhaps should be given typing jobs or something like that. Perhaps not quite what David had in mind, but I totally agree with his principle.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7176032.stm
[/quote]

rhadden
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RE: Should the lazy be made to work?

Post by rhadden » Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:26 am

Years ago I had a part time job driving a van for an agency that worked the mentaly handicaped there i transported a young man back and fourth to work. He was confined to a wheel chair and could only use his left hand. He had a job nailing pallets together.Here this guy was working when he could have just laid around and did nothing. Now around the same time I had a sister inlaw that was fat and no good for nothing who thought you and I owed her a living just because she laid down and got nocked up a few times. Should we force the lazy to ooo yes we should I love the sound of a labor camp.

rhadden
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RE: Should the lazy be made to work?

Post by rhadden » Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:28 am

[quote=Dirk]
[quote=mongoman]
You're using a computer are you not? To me, that's a luxury.
[/quote]

It belongs to my whole family, it's old, costs to maintain. So many people i know have only access to computers in the local library.

[quote=mongoman]
If you increase the minimum wage, employers will hire less workers, and force them to work above their capabilities, which will cause flaws in the business.
[/quote]

If you're not using a capitalist system, a minimum wage would not be necessary. But, since we are, i'll deal with that part.

There'll be health and safety regs against that. And if there aren't, there definitely should be. If they could, the capitalists would work us to death however much we're paid.

If employers hire less workers, they've still got a benefit system to fall back on. That's the entire point. The considerably higher minimum wage will be something they'll want to work towards and they'll actively seek jobs.

The capitalist businesses will hire them when they expand their trade and when their market points rise. That's the time when businesses employ.

Thus, it can only ultimately benefit the economy, the workers and the businesses themselves.

You said it yourself, if they worked the workers beyond their capabilities, it would create flaws in the businesses. Capitalists aren't stupid, just self-serving.
[/quote]

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