Bad US uni shooting spree

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DodgeFB
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RE: Bad US uni shooting spree

Post by DodgeFB » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:37 pm

[quote=Lad]
In those situations yes. However, there would be ten times as many Virginia tec incidents if everyone had a gun.
[/quote]
I don't think so. To get a permit to carry a concealed weapon here you have to go through a background check and take a test. You don't just buy a permit in a store.
There are thousands of people in this country that carry a gun legally. And very few of them ever shoot anyone. Coming from UK I can understand your fear of anyone having a gun. But here the bad guys all carry guns (no permit). Just this morning an FBI agent said for every second this shooter was not taken down he was shooting someone else.
The bad guys love it when people just stand around calling the police while they do just what they want to do. You can't have a policeman to protect every home, job site, and school in the country. A legally armed citizen in that school could have stopped the killing much sooner and saved lives. Remember any policeman or soldier is not born with super powers. They were and are just a citizen with a gun and training in how and when to use it. You can do anything they can in an emergency situation. But you need training and practice, practice, and more practice.

Final thought. This is a violent world. Can we trust that someone else will always be there to save us? 32 students in this case had no one there to protect them. Now they are dead.
Last edited by DodgeFB on Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Romulus111VADT
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RE: Bad US uni shooting spree

Post by Romulus111VADT » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:46 pm

[quote=DodgeFB]
[quote=Lad]
In those situations yes. However, there would be ten times as many Virginia tec incidents if everyone had a gun.
[/quote]
I don't think so. To get a permit to carry a concealed weapon here you have to go through a background check and take a test. You don't just buy a permit in a store.
There are thousands of people in this country that carry a gun legally. And very few of them ever shoot anyone. Coming from UK I can understand your fear of anyone having a gun. But here the bad guys all carry guns (no permit). Just this morning an FBI agent said for every second this shooter was not taken down he was shooting someone else.
The bad guys love it when people just stand around calling the police while they do just what they want to do. You can't have a policeman to protect every home, job site, and school in the country. A legally armed citizen in that school could have stopped the killing much sooner and saved lives. Remember any policeman or soldier is not born with super powers. They were and are just a citizen with a gun and training in how and when to use it. You can do anything they can in an emergency situation. But you need training and practice, practice, and more practice.

Final thought. This is a violent world. Can we trust that someone else will always be there to save us? 32 students in this case had no one there to protect them. Now they are dead.
[/quote]

I agree with that 100%.

In my area, you must get a permit to own any handgun. Then to carry it concealed, you must undergo a Sheriff's Department background search. Then the FBI must also do a background check. You need to all but prove Sainthood to carry a concealed weapon and you must prove a need to carry concealed. This would include people that transport bank deposits or other high value cargo.

FYI, did you know that all law enforcement personnel are required to carry their weapons even when off duty in the US? In many cases, they are even allowed to carry them on comercial aircraft (i.e. Federal Agents, CIA, Military Police, etc.). I use to have a Federal Concealed Weapons permit that allowed me to carry it even into banks.

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appleton
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RE: Bad US uni shooting spree

Post by appleton » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:39 pm

There is a lot of differences between the U.K and the U.S one in particular is that carrying a gun (In some parts of the U.S) might be a necessity but there is no where that I can think of here where it would be necessary.

We did have a school shooting once in dunblane so we aren't immune to this either.

The thing that worries me is the frequency of attacks in the U.S. I remember several incidents one in a shopping centre quite recently. Another thing that is worrying is that there appears to be lots of people suffering mental issues (Ready to commit such acts). Is something going wrong with society? Are they not being watched, or cared for? What's the problem?

George needs to concentrate on home first then worry about elsewhere ;)
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RE: Bad US uni shooting spree

Post by DodgeFB » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:02 pm

[quote=matt]
There is a lot of differences between the U.K and the U.S one in particular is that carrying a gun (In some parts of the U.S) might be a necessity but there is no where that I can think of here where it would be necessary.

We did have a school shooting once in dunblane so we aren't immune to this either.

The thing that worries me is the frequency of attacks in the U.S. I remember several incidents one in a shopping centre quite recently. Another thing that is worrying is that there appears to be lots of people suffering mental issues (Ready to commit such acts). Is something going wrong with society? Are they not being watched, or cared for? What's the problem?

George needs to concentrate on home first then worry about elsewhere ;)
[/quote]

In that "shopping centre" shooting there just happened to be an off duty police officer there shopping with his wife. He killed the bad guy. But since there was only two people there with a gun when it started who else was going to stop it?
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RE: Bad US uni shooting spree

Post by Lad » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:25 am

I guess in the US where everyone has a gun allowing each and every person to carry a gun WOULD stop such dreadful attacks. So, ok, you would not see 30 people die in a few minutes. However I think you would see a massive rise in the number of gun deaths - far more even if you take into account the odd Virginia Tech tragedy. What I am trying to say is that in the regular occurence every day in every schol and university where two boys have an arguement and both have guns and then elsewhere another two boys have an argument without guns which couple are most likely to kill? Men easily lose their temper and in the heat of the moment, before they realise it, they have done what they never imagined they would do.
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RE: Bad US uni shooting spree

Post by DodgeFB » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:13 am

[quote=Lad]
I guess in the US where everyone has a gun allowing each and every person to carry a gun WOULD stop such dreadful attacks. So, ok, you would not see 30 people die in a few minutes. However I think you would see a massive rise in the number of gun deaths - far more even if you take into account the odd Virginia Tech tragedy. What I am trying to say is that in the regular occurence every day in every schol and university where two boys have an arguement and both have guns and then elsewhere another two boys have an argument without guns which couple are most likely to kill? Men easily lose their temper and in the heat of the moment, before they realise it, they have done what they never imagined they would do.
[/quote]
Everyone here does not carry a gun. That is what makes it so easy for bad guys to rob, rape, and kill. See the bad guys don't follow the rules. It would be great if they did.

I have shot and I have been shot. Until it happens you have no idea how helpless you feel when someone shoots at you and you can not fight back.

The people around here that want gun control know nothing about a gun. They could not hit the side of a barn if they were in the barn. People fear what they don't understand. So they just want to tell everyone else how to live. But if you are ever in trouble see if they are any help. :tongue:
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Romulus111VADT
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RE: Bad US uni shooting spree

Post by Romulus111VADT » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:27 am

Well, if people know a person is packing, they tend to be allot more polite....lol

Even if just the teachers were trained and had weapons on them, it would be unlikely a student would be so willing to enter a classroom knowing the teacher has the ability to return fire. Hell, even a taser gun would be something to take a suspect down before he kills dozens of people.

Allot of people fail to realise because of lack of training. The slide type weapon that was used can be disabled just by grabbing the slide and forcing it backwards. Then locking your finger inside the trigger guard will make it almost impossible for it to fire (unless you release it). If you think your about to die anyway, at least try to take the guy out. Just don't lay there like sheep for the slaughter. Go down fighting and you just may save your life and the lives of many others. There's always a 50-50 chance you'll take him out and live.

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RE: Bad US uni shooting spree

Post by DodgeFB » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:47 am

[quote=Romulus111VADT]
Well, if people know a person is packing, they tend to be allot more polite....lol

Even if just the teachers were trained and had weapons on them, it would be unlikely a student would be so willing to enter a classroom knowing the teacher has the ability to return fire. Hell, even a taser gun would be something to take a suspect down before he kills dozens of people.

Allot of people fail to realise because of lack of training. The slide type weapon that was used can be disabled just by grabbing the slide and forcing it backwards. Then locking your finger inside the trigger guard will make it almost impossible for it to fire (unless you release it). If you think your about to die anyway, at least try to take the guy out. Just don't lay there like sheep for the slaughter. Go down fighting and you just may save your life and the lives of many others. There's always a 50-50 chance you'll take him out and live.
[/quote]
Very true. Most of the time if I am armed people don't know it. Like one night my wife and I left our attorneys office. She has been very sick for years. The attorney told us to keep our eyes open since they had been having problems around there. I am helping my wife walk and carrying a briefcase. We had to go into the parking garage. I hate those things anyway. We were parked on the 4th floor. Just as we started toward the car there was a group of bangers watching and following us. One hand on sick wife and other on my case. I am thinking what to do if we get swarmed. I just raised my case enough so my elbow touched that slight bulge under my jacket. Man was that reassuring! I don't know for sure but those guys seemed to back off like they sensed something. I don't know if one of them noticed the arm movement or if my attitude change was showing. But all is well that ends well. I am always worried about something happening because they can tell my wife is sick and weak. It is like a sign saying "VICTIM"!
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Lad
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RE: Bad US uni shooting spree

Post by Lad » Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:14 pm

Oh well, I don't live in that culture and I have only ever fired an air rifle and never even so much as touched a dangerous gun. I guess I am applying my culture to another and that can't work. I have a number of friends in the US and I know one family who alone at night were saved by the threat of the use of a powerful gun when some armed robbers try to make some entrance.

My point though you didn't quite address. I am fully aware that if at least a handful of people were armed there he wouldn't have killed half as many people as he did. I agree. What I ask is that at the end of the year how many people will have died simply because idiotic thugs and stupid teenagers are holding guns?
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RE: Bad US uni shooting spree

Post by DodgeFB » Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:23 pm

[quote=Lad]
Oh well, I don't live in that culture and I have only ever fired an air rifle and never even so much as touched a dangerous gun. I guess I am applying my culture to another and that can't work. I have a number of friends in the US and I know one family who alone at night were saved by the threat of the use of a powerful gun when some armed robbers try to make some entrance.

My point though you didn't quite address. I am fully aware that if at least a handful of people were armed there he wouldn't have killed half as many people as he did. I agree. What I ask is that at the end of the year how many people will have died simply because idiotic thugs and stupid teenagers are holding guns?
[/quote]
The answer is idiotic thugs and stupid teenagers already have guns. They don't care what is legal.
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