France Blockades Britain

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Dirk
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France Blockades Britain

Post by Dirk » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:14 pm

French fishing blockade of British ferries! Calais, Dunkerque, Boulogne and more...

http://www.france24.com/fr/20090415-por ... -cabillaud

What do you think?
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RE: France Blockades Britain

Post by DodgeFB » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:26 pm

[quote=Dirk]
French fishing blockade of British ferries! Calais, Dunkerque, Boulogne and more...

http://www.france24.com/fr/20090415-por ... -cabillaud

What do you think?
[/quote]
I think that must be written in French. So this old man can't tell what they are complaining about.Image
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"You can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

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Dirk
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RE: France Blockades Britain

Post by Dirk » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:01 pm

Er, sorry, i was just reading it in French. I like to get the local side on an issue. Sorry. Generally, French fishermen threw a hissy fit over fuel prices and quotas etc. Did a go-slow of 25 trawlers across the channel and blockaded British ferries from landing at Calais and Dunkerque. They wanted Government intervention in helping them. But Sarkozy can't issue a direct subsidy because it's against EU law - free and fair trade guaranteed and all that.
Working Class And F***ing Proud!

A, B, C, D - Eviscerate the bourgeoisie.

Freedom Or Death. One solution:
R-E-V-O-L-U-T-I-O-N!

All Power To The People!

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RE: France Blockades Britain

Post by DodgeFB » Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:29 pm

Er, sorry, i was just reading it in French. I like to get the local side on an issue. Sorry. Generally, French fishermen threw a hissy fit over fuel prices and quotas etc. Did a go-slow of 25 trawlers across the channel and blockaded British ferries from landing at Calais and Dunkerque. They wanted Government intervention in helping them. But Sarkozy can't issue a direct subsidy because it's against EU law - free and fair trade guaranteed and all that.

Okay thanks. :biggrin: From this part of the world this all started when all these countries gave up their independence to the EU. Countries with so much history and pride in their country just decided to ("join a gang")give it up. How many people have tears in their eyes when they see the EU flag. And how many puff up their chest with pride at the site of "their" flag.

Sorry I just don't get it. And think they pretty much deserve what they get for joining the EU. :icon_frown:
Last edited by DodgeFB on Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: France Blockades Britain

Post by Dirk » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:29 am

Think of it like the United States. In, what was it, 1776? The 13 states "gave up their independence" to be united under a stronger Federal Government. All the states kept their own cultures, to some extent - there are regional accents, and stereotypes galore for every individual state. They also have their own local Governments. But macro-issues that affect all or multiple states are dealt with on a federal level.

The EU is an example of this on a larger scale. And we have a lot more independence than, say, California. I know that CA is held back in its Green initiatives. The EU, however, not only encourages it but also provides subsidies for poorer countries. And while the Eurozone countries are united by a single currency, the others have almost-complete economic freedom from the EU - realistically Germany, since the Euro is based on the DAX.

And then you have to look at the EU in perspective. The US was united in defiance of the English. By the way, i'd like to point out that France was on the side of the American Revolution.The EU was also united after the Second World War under the EEC. The point was to make the countries of Europe economically dependant on one another, mainly through France and Britain's coal industry and Germany's steel industry. This way, war would be impossible from an economic perspective. I'll point out that this worked.
Working Class And F***ing Proud!

A, B, C, D - Eviscerate the bourgeoisie.

Freedom Or Death. One solution:
R-E-V-O-L-U-T-I-O-N!

All Power To The People!

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RE: France Blockades Britain

Post by Dirk » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:36 am

And as a guy with no nationality besides European, i'd disagree. The European stars on the blue background aren't awe-inspiring to me because, understandably with my German ancestry, i despise nationalism. Germans just don't stand up and salute when the black, red and gold is raised. It'd be like people standing up and saluting the Texan star. Actually, probably worse because it's kind of socially tabboo.
Working Class And F***ing Proud!

A, B, C, D - Eviscerate the bourgeoisie.

Freedom Or Death. One solution:
R-E-V-O-L-U-T-I-O-N!

All Power To The People!

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RE: France Blockades Britain

Post by DodgeFB » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:31 pm

[quote=Dirk]
And as a guy with no nationality besides European, i'd disagree. The European stars on the blue background aren't awe-inspiring to me because, understandably with my German ancestry, i despise nationalism. Germans just don't stand up and salute when the black, red and gold is raised. It'd be like people standing up and saluting the Texan star. Actually, probably worse because it's kind of socially tabboo.
[/quote]

Now as to where to start. Many people in the US just see California as a place where a bunch of weird people live. And some of us do think our lives would be better today if the Union had let the South go instead of have a civil war. Still today we all do not believe in the same things. The North Eastern states think they are superior to the southern states. Have a completely different view of what government is all about.

Like right now. This new guy playing president is is jamming everything he can down our throats. People are already protesting in the street. We don't usually get along with the French. But Sarkozy seems to be able to see through the Obama BS.

Now the next time the Republicans get in power we will do the same thing he is doing. Undo everything he just did to us. So in many ways we pull against each other. I have no need for a big fat bloated government to run my everyday life. It seems others feel the need have government lead them through life like a father leads a child. I understand why you are against "nationalism". But I will never understand anyone "flushing" their whole history good with the bad. Some of my own ancestors came from Germany. Unfortunately I never got to meet any of them. People have said I have a "German appetite" for good beer and meats.Image I always wanted to go there, but never will due to health problems.

I guess it does not make much difference anymore what happens in this country. I have lived past "my time" and the young people I talk to don't have much use for things of the past. Which I am one of those things from the past. So they just tell people like me to "move on, get over it". But believe me, the day will come when they see their life and history flushed too. And no one will care.

See I would be proud to die for my country. But it really hurts to just have it stolen by a government that has no use for me and I have no use for it at this time. I can only hope that one day we will all be one the same page.
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Dirk
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RE: France Blockades Britain

Post by Dirk » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:09 pm

We're not flushing our history away. Although i will admit that a lot of Germans are ashamed of their history. Meanwhile, however, France is very proud. We're simply putting the whole lot into a cultural salad bowl. That way we have a hugely diverse European culture. I'm a part of that but i'm not really a part of any country's individual culture. When i chose my avatar, as an anti-capitalist i didn't want to choose any brands, as someone who believes in meanings, i thought a html/c++ avatar was too boring (although i'm a bit of a programming freak). As someone who has no distinct national identity, i couldn't choose a flag. But i am European. So i chose that flag.

Maybe i'm against nationalism because i have nothing to be nationalist about. I believe in Scottish Independence, for example. But that's only because i want decentralisation. My (Welsh) step-dad is a bit anti-French sometimes, and i stand up for France. But i defend every European country against every other. Because i want us to be equals and to respect one another. I don't know Eastern Europe very well, though. I've been there only briefly. Going to Poland later this year, though. America i don't know very well. I stayed there for 10 days. In Ohio. I have a friend there who is a strong democrat so it's interesting to suddenly hear the other side.

Maybe it's not that i'm jealous. I mean, i do think it's stupid to be proud of your country. But it's also stupid to be ashamed of it. I refer you to Jean-Jacques Rousseau:

"The first man who, having enclosed a piece of ground, bethought himself of saying This is mine, and found people simple enough to believe him, was the real founder of civil society. From how many crimes, wars, and murders, from how many horrors and misfortunes might not any one have saved mankind, by pulling up the stakes, or filling up the ditch, and crying to his fellows: Beware of listening to this imposter; you are undone if you once forget that the fruits of the earth belong to us all, and the earth itself to nobody."

Let's use him again in the matter of Government, since you spill into that subject:

"A country cannot subsist well without liberty, nor liberty without virtue."
Do we agree? I'm not sure what your feelings on libertarianism are...

Or perhaps you'd prefer Thomas Jefferson, i think it was?

"A man that sacrifices liberty for security deserves neither" - though i'm not sure of the accuracy of the quotation.
Working Class And F***ing Proud!

A, B, C, D - Eviscerate the bourgeoisie.

Freedom Or Death. One solution:
R-E-V-O-L-U-T-I-O-N!

All Power To The People!

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DodgeFB
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RE: France Blockades Britain

Post by DodgeFB » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:02 pm

[quote=Dirk]
We're not flushing our history away. Although i will admit that a lot of Germans are ashamed of their history. Meanwhile, however, France is very proud. We're simply putting the whole lot into a cultural salad bowl. That way we have a hugely diverse European culture. I'm a part of that but i'm not really a part of any country's individual culture. When i chose my avatar, as an anti-capitalist i didn't want to choose any brands, as someone who believes in meanings, i thought a html/c++ avatar was too boring (although i'm a bit of a programming freak). As someone who has no distinct national identity, i couldn't choose a flag. But i am European. So i chose that flag.

Maybe i'm against nationalism because i have nothing to be nationalist about. I believe in Scottish Independence, for example. But that's only because i want decentralisation. My (Welsh) step-dad is a bit
sometimes, and i stand up for France. But i defend every European country against every other. Because i want us to be equals and to respect one another. I don't know Eastern Europe very well, though. I've been there only briefly. Going to Poland later this year, though. America i don't know very well. I stayed there for 10 days. In Ohio. I have a friend there who is a strong democrat so it's interesting to suddenly hear the other side.

Maybe it's not that i'm jealous. I mean, i do think it's stupid to be proud of your country. But it's also stupid to be ashamed of it. I refer you to Jean-Jacques Rousseau:

"The first man who, having enclosed a piece of ground, bethought himself of saying This is mine, and found people simple enough to believe him, was the real founder of civil society. From how many crimes, wars, and murders, from how many horrors and misfortunes might not any one have saved mankind, by pulling up the stakes, or filling up the ditch, and crying to his fellows: Beware of listening to this imposter; you are undone if you once forget that the fruits of the earth belong to us all, and the earth itself to nobody."

Let's use him again in the matter of Government, since you spill into that subject:

"A country cannot subsist well without liberty, nor liberty without virtue."
Do we agree? I'm not sure what your feelings on libertarianism are...

Or perhaps you'd prefer Thomas Jefferson, i think it was?

"A man that sacrifices liberty for security deserves neither" - though i'm not sure of the accuracy of the quotation.
[/quote]

I better stick with old Tom Jefferson. :biggrin:

There are a lot of anti-French feelings in the US. They kind of turned on us a few years ago and we did not take it in a friendly way. It seems to be getting better since their last election.

I really wanted to like Obama. But they keep saying, "we won the election" (dig dig dig and gloat). He wanted change. Look who he broght in for VP! :icon_frown: And appointed a bunch of "tax cheats" for his cabinet.

We may not agree on much, but I thank you for the "input". :biggrin:
Last edited by DodgeFB on Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dirk
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RE: France Blockades Britain

Post by Dirk » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:50 pm

I know what you mean about Obama. At first i was like "yay, the world is saved from Sarah Palin" - i had a theory that Palin was so anti-Russian there'd be nuclear war within three months. She honestly scared me.

Obama said there would be "change". I was happy at the closure of Guantanamo Bay and promises to get out of Iraq. But then he goes, "by the way, we're only getting out of Iraq after another 2 years of meddling." and then "Oh, and by the way, don't think there'll be no war, we're concentrating the extra troops on Afghanistan!" So much for freedom-loving! Where is Afghan freedom? How come there won't be any Iraqi freedom for another 2 YEARS?

Economically, what's the difference? I thought he had a real economic plan and not copying the stupider leaders of Europe! And where's this National Health Service he promised the American workers?

Well, i'm hoping that French relations with America improve further. Perhaps Europe and America can coexist side-by-side peacefully without this constant economic warring. It's really getting me down. The embargoing is not helping either of our economies. As an economist, that's important to me.

I'm sure if we tried we could find things we agree on. Like cannabis! But i actually agree with you sometimes but for different reasons :biggrin:
Working Class And F***ing Proud!

A, B, C, D - Eviscerate the bourgeoisie.

Freedom Or Death. One solution:
R-E-V-O-L-U-T-I-O-N!

All Power To The People!

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