US Accuses Iran Of Trying To 'Dominate' Mideast (Yeah right)

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jafar00
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US Accuses Iran Of Trying To 'Dominate' Mideast (Yeah right)

Post by jafar00 » Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:39 am

"The Middle East isn't a region to be dominated by Iran. The Gulf isn't a body of water to be controlled by Iran. That's why we've seen the United States station two carrier battle groups in the region,"

Sorry, but the US who has troops occupying 2 middle east countries, and bases in all the others, has no right to tell Iran to stop trying to dominate the area.

http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/zone0/vi ... hp?t=66803
Last edited by jafar00 on Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: US Accuses Iran Of Trying To 'Dominate' Mideast (Yeah right)

Post by Lad » Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:13 am

The US is allowed to have bases in those countries, if they willingly allow them. That makes it then irrelevant in the equation. Those countries don't have to have US bases in their country.

The troops in Afhanistan Jafar, and even I am surprised at people like you who argue against the US, are there with UN troops. The country has a larger force of US troops there as part of the UN; only fair considering its people size. The fact that the UN troops came after the invasion is irrelevant as far as occupying goes. If there was ever country that urgently needed in invading it was Afghanistan.

We watched a program on the Taliban recently and in just one valley in that massive country was 1,000 Taliban soldiers (not including the odd Joe Smith from the local village who likes to borrow an AK-47 and have a bit of fun just for a day). The US was supposed to have 120 soldiers there. It had 20. The journalist managed to get in touch and interview a 15 year old suicide bomber and film many Al-quaeda. The country is full of them and all the war did was push the terrorist training camps over the boarder into Pakistan. One US commander said that in the valley I was speaking about the Taliban were mostly Pakistanis. These people are terrorists that are planning their next attack and they admit it. These simple people with basic weapons are so lethal to the world. Look at Spain, look at Bali (twice) if you don't wish to believe attacks in the UK or US. How can there possibly not been an urgent need here?

If you just argued about Iraq I would bare with you. The whole war was deceitful. I sometimes wonder if Iraq was invaded so that it would be a) a stepping stone and stop Saddam getting involved and b) try to warn countries like Iran that they won't be tolerated. The end doesn't justify the means. If the war had been done properly and truthfully there would have been a lot less problems.
Last edited by Lad on Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jafar00
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RE: US Accuses Iran Of Trying To 'Dominate' Mideast (Yeah right)

Post by jafar00 » Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:11 am

The point I'm making here is that the US who are dominating the Middle East by making war everywhere are not the ones to lecture Iran about the subject.
One of them has it's armed forces all over the Middle East and is actively meddling in Middle East affairs. The other is still within it's OWN borders and has not invaded another country ever before and has no intention of doing so any time soon.
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RE: US Accuses Iran Of Trying To 'Dominate' Mideast (Yeah right)

Post by Lad » Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:44 am

That is a relevant point prima facie. However, the US isn't trying to dominate the world, but trying to rid it of those people who would make it unsafe to live in. In WWII we all learned the danger of leaving just one man and not implementing rules. Roughly 50 million people paid the ultimate price for that mistake. I don't think the world is any safer after Iraq, but it is much safer after Afghanistan. The troops will leave Iraq, but they won't be leaving Afghanisatan.
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RE: US Accuses Iran Of Trying To 'Dominate' Mideast (Yeah right)

Post by jafar00 » Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:53 pm

[quote=Lad]
That is a relevant point prima facie. However, the US isn't trying to dominate the world, but trying to rid it of those people who would make it unsafe to live in. In WWII we all learned the danger of leaving just one man and not implementing rules. Roughly 50 million people paid the ultimate price for that mistake. I don't think the world is any safer after Iraq, but it is much safer after Afghanistan. The troops will leave Iraq, but they won't be leaving Afghanisatan.
[/quote]

With respect, you are not the police of the world and Iraq was no threat to anyone. Crippling sanctions and constant bombing of any Iraqi radar installations that dared to "paint" a US or British aircraft flying in sovereign Iraqi airspace made certain Saddam was not going to invade anyone else. 600,000 (Red Cross Estimate) Iraqis have paid for that.

Thousands of Afghans have also paid the price. What for? The Taliban didn't attack the US, neither did the Afghan people, nor did the Iraqis.

As for the troops leaving Iraq, it won't be during the Bush regime. He's already stated he's sending extra cannon fodder there whether the congress authorises it or not.
The Iraqis want US troops out. The Iraqi PM recently said so. He just wants to be given enough firepower to protect his government from the inevitable coup and the US troops can go.
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Romulus111VADT
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RE: US Accuses Iran Of Trying To 'Dominate' Mideast (Yeah right)

Post by Romulus111VADT » Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:40 pm

I'll be the first to admit that Bush shouldn't have invaded Iraq for the reasons he used.

One thing that nags at me is that Saddam murdered 100's of thousands of his own countrymen and no one seemed willing to step in to liberate the Iraqi people.

http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/19675.htm

This brings back memories of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rogue. Pol Pots regime slaughtered fully 1/3 of his own people numbering millions. He committed such abhorrent atrocities on his people that the Vietnamese's Army invaded Cambodia to take him out of power in 1979. If they hadn't how many more would have been murdered and how long would it have taken before the slaughter spilled over into surrounding countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Roug ... nd_torture
"The Khmer Rouge government arrested, tortured and eventually executed anyone suspected of belonging to several categories of supposed "enemies": anyone with connections to the former government or with foreign governments professionals and intellectuals - in practice this included almost everyone with an education, or even people wearing glasses (which, in regime logic, suggested that they read a lot) ethnic Vietnamese, ethnic Chinese, Cambodian Christians, Jews, Muslims and the Buddhist monkhood "economic sabotage" for which many of the former urban dwellers (who had not starved to death in the first place) were deemed to be guilty of by virtue of their lack of agricultural ability.

Today, examples of the torture methods used by the Khmer Rouge can be seen at the Tuol Sleng Genocide Museum. The museum occupies the former grounds of a high school turned prison camp that was operated by Khang Khek Ieu, more commonly known as "Comrade Duch". Some 17,000 people passed through this centre before they were taken to sites (also known as The Killing Fields), outside Phnom Penh such as Choeung Ek where most were executed (mainly by pickaxes to save bullets) and buried in mass graves. Of the thousands who entered the Tuol Sleng Centre (also known as S-21), only seven are known to have survived."

I have seen the killing fields of Cambodia first hand and there is no way to describe acres of bodies with plastic bags over their heads and hands tied behind their backs. Or skeletons with obvious bullet holes in the back of the head and again with their hands still tied.
Last edited by Romulus111VADT on Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: US Accuses Iran Of Trying To 'Dominate' Mideast (Yeah right)

Post by Lass » Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:58 pm

[quote=Romulus111VADT]
I'll be the first to admit that Bush shouldn't have invaded Iraq for the reasons he used.

One thing that nags at me is that Saddam murdered 100's of thousands of his own countrymen and no one seemed willing to step in to liberate the Iraqi people.

http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/19675.htm

This brings back memories of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rogue. Pol Pots regime slaughtered fully 1/3 of his own people numbering millions. He committed such abhorrent atrocities on his people that the Vietnamese's Army invaded Cambodia to take him out of power in 1979. If they hadn't how many more would have been murdered and how long would it have taken before the slaughter spilled over into surrounding countries.

The Khmer Rouge government arrested, tortured and eventually executed anyone suspected of belonging to several categories of supposed "enemies": anyone with connections to the former government or with foreign governments professionals and intellectuals - in practice this included almost everyone with an education, or even people wearing glasses (which, in regime logic, suggested that they read a lot) ethnic Vietnamese, ethnic Chinese, Cambodian Christians, Jews, Muslims and the Buddhist monkhood "economic sabotage" for which many of the former urban dwellers (who had not starved to death in the first place) were deemed to be guilty of by virtue of their lack of agricultural ability.

Today, examples of the torture methods used by the Khmer Rouge can be seen at the Tuol Sleng Genocide Museum. The museum occupies the former grounds of a high school turned prison camp that was operated by Khang Khek Ieu, more commonly known as "Comrade Duch". Some 17,000 people passed through this centre before they were taken to sites (also known as The Killing Fields), outside Phnom Penh such as Choeung Ek where most were executed (mainly by pickaxes to save bullets) and buried in mass graves. Of the thousands who entered the Tuol Sleng Centre (also known as S-21), only seven are known to have survived.

I have seen the killing fields of Cambodia first hand and there is no way to describe acres of bodies with plastic bags over their heads and hands tied behind their backs. Or skeletons with obvious bullet holes in the back of the head and again with their hands still tied.
[/quote]

Listen to the guy who's seen it first hand. ^^^ The rest of us can only imagine the awfulness of it. OK, lives are lives and death is death, but, to me, there is a world of difference between the systematic massacre of civilians and the accidental deaths of civilians caught up with the 'bad guys'.

As for Iraq, my gut feeling is that the government there needs to just get a grip. There's no way it could control/suppress/destroy the insurgency without the help of coalition forces. And it's about time that changed. Don't we all want to see every single one of the troops home as soon as possible?
Above all, I would teach him to tell the truth ... Truth-telling, I have found, is the key to responsible citizenship. The thousands of criminals I have seen in 40 years of law enforcement have had one thing in common: Every single one was a liar. [JE Hoover]

Romulus111VADT
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RE: US Accuses Iran Of Trying To 'Dominate' Mideast (Yeah right)

Post by Romulus111VADT » Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:35 pm

I went on an all to familiar "Unofficial" recon mission into Kampuchea (Cambodia) to investigate reports of what the Khmer Rogue were doing. They didn't discriminate at all and were killing foreign journalists and civilians to eliminate witness's.

We landed in only one of many Killing Fields and estimated that 5,000 bodies were in the field in various states of decomposition. There were an estimated 5,000 bodies buried under the bodies that were visible. You couldn't step w/o stepping on bodies and our helo had landed on several bodies. The smell was beyond belief and we had to stuff petroleum jelly up our noses to be able to tolerate the smell.

The real unbelievable part of this is that Pol Pot died of natural causes in 1998 in the mountains of the Thailand jungle a free and unrepentant mad man. Most of his followers that helped him commit such atrocities were never punished and many live in the same areas that they tried so hard to destroy. Even the commandant of S-21 got off scot-free.

The attached is one of many photographs and is one of the less gruesome-[attachment=109]
Last edited by Romulus111VADT on Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: US Accuses Iran Of Trying To 'Dominate' Mideast (Yeah right)

Post by Lad » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:36 pm

There aren't words to describe it and what was it all for? Nothing. These wars are often forgotton. We often think of the jews in WWII, but there are so many others that have suffered the same fate and worse in other countries.
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RE: US Accuses Iran Of Trying To 'Dominate' Mideast (Yeah right)

Post by Romulus111VADT » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:21 pm

[quote=Lad]
There aren't words to describe it and what was it all for? Nothing. These wars are often forgotten. We often think of the jews in WWII, but there are so many others that have suffered the same fate and worse in other countries.
[/quote]

Yes and even though the invasions of some countries is frowned upon in the beginning. More times than not, the result is that a madman has been taken down as dictator and the people can once again enjoy freedom w/o fear of being slaughtered for religious beliefs and many other deranged reasons. Look at Europe for example, can you imagine what it would be like now and how many millions of people would have died if the Allies hadn't gotten rid of Hitler.

Even Stalin murdered millions of his own countrymen and was as ruthless as Hitler ever was.

You have to face facts, megalomaniacs will be around as long as there are humans and if we as humans don't make a stand and destroy these evil men. The world will spiral into anarchy and people will suffer unbelievable atrocities.

It is truly sad that the Iraqi's are killing one another over sectarian reasons. I just can't understand why they can't live in peace with one another. I mean crap, I may not like some other religions and their beliefs. But I don't go out and start killing them to force my religion on them. If they hadn't started this sectarian war with one another. The coalition forces would have probably been long gone and the Iraqi's could be well on their way to a democratic society and enjoying their new freedoms and living in peace.

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