The Monarchy versus Presidency

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Lad
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RE: The Monarchy versus Presidency

Post by Lad » Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:44 pm

True it isn't democratic, but who says that because it isn't that makes it wrong. The fact that the Queen actually doesn't engage in law making directly (you know what I mean by that) doesn't mean she doesn't do important work either. I think you'll find she probably works harder than the PM, but in a slightly different way. :P Unlike the PM she doesn't need to worry herself over votes and how to make sure she stays queen and that has its advantages.

I don't mind calling her "her Majesty" or the royals their titles, it isn't any different to calling a judge his lordship or a person "sir" who has done special work and been knighted. I'm a mr and she is a majesty - fine by me! As for bowing etc - you have to bow to judges if you enter or leave their presence - so why should the Queen be different in that respect. I guess you could argue a judge worked hard to get to that stage, while a Queen doesn't do anything. True, but surely just because she hasn't does that make it wrong?
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RE: The Monarchy versus Presidency

Post by DodgeFB » Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:18 pm

[quote=Lad]
True it isn't democratic, but who says that because it isn't that makes it wrong. The fact that the Queen actually doesn't engage in law making directly (you know what I mean by that) doesn't mean she doesn't do important work either. I think you'll find she probably works harder than the PM, but in a slightly different way. :P Unlike the PM she doesn't need to worry herself over votes and how to make sure she stays queen and that has its advantages.

I don't mind calling her "her Majesty" or the royals their titles, it isn't any different to calling a judge his lordship or a person "sir" who has done special work and been knighted. I'm a mr and she is a majesty - fine by me! As for bowing etc - you have to bow to judges if you enter or leave their presence - so why should the Queen be different in that respect. I guess you could argue a judge worked hard to get to that stage, while a Queen doesn't do anything. True, but surely just because she hasn't does that make it wrong?
[/quote]
I never thought of it that way. There is no bowing here to anyone. If you bowed to a judge here you would be fined and maybe jailed. I think it comes back to that "all created equal" thing we all believe in around here.
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RE: The Monarchy versus Presidency

Post by Lass » Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:21 pm

Contempt of court is regarded as a fairly serious crime here. :wink: (Oh, I mean "serious" by present standards...) I went along to the Sheriffs Court here to watch proceedings and found it amusing that everyone had to stand when the Sheriff came in or out; members of the court bowed when they went in or out. I certainly wouldn't go so far as to bow to a Sheriff, unless it was part of my job as an advocate :wink: but I thought that the standing bit served a purpose. There ought to be some kind of an atmosphere to a courtroom, IMHO.
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RE: The Monarchy versus Presidency

Post by appleton » Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:36 pm

True it isn't democratic, but who says that because it isn't that makes it wrong.


We all constantly waffle on how great and democratic we are. The government and the media.
True, but surely just because she hasn't does that make it wrong?
In my eyes it does. I will not fall onto my feet over someone who I don't know and more to the point hasn't earn t/done anything to justify it.
If you bowed to a judge here you would be fined and maybe jailed. I think it comes back to that "all created equal" thing we all believe in around here.
Sounds like things are run a bit fairer over there :smile: .

True freedom would mean you would be allowed to bow/not to bow. It being that persons choice but this is not a free society.

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RE: The Monarchy versus Presidency

Post by DodgeFB » Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:42 pm

Oh there is plenty of atmosphere in court here. And contempt of court is what you would be charged with if you bowed to a judge. The judge would think you were trying to make fun of them. When the judge enters the court you should stand. And if the judge leaves the courtroom you should stand. I do know one that has the bailiff tell the room to stay seated.
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RE: The Monarchy versus Presidency

Post by Lad » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:42 pm

Lol - I think respect for positions of high office have long gone in many places and I think it is a bad thing. I liked the respect people gave 60 years ago to those in the offices we mentioned. The PM would be spat on more often than he would be bowed to today. :D
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RE: The Monarchy versus Presidency

Post by DodgeFB » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:10 pm

[quote=Lad]
Lol - I think respect for positions of high office have long gone in many places and I think it is a bad thing. I liked the respect people gave 60 years ago to those in the offices we mentioned. The PM would be spat on more often than he would be bowed to today. :D
[/quote]
I am all for respect. I think it should start in the home.

When it comes to judges some deserve respect and some do not. We have a judge here that I have known all my life. He is a family friend. I respect him, but outside the courtroom I call him Fred. We had a very powerful judge that was as big a crook as we have. He just made a deal last year to walk away if they would drop the charges against him and his wife.
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RE: The Monarchy versus Presidency

Post by Lad » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:48 pm

You respect his office. I think this is where people get muddled. I hate our government - I think it is a immoral and deceitful bunch of men that have caused a lot of problems for many in this world. However I would treat the PM and any of his men with the deepest respect.

Many of our judges are doing exactly what yours does (except it is extremely secret) and a large number are known to be members of the Free Masons. The Free Masons are a secret society just for men. They are made up of very powerful and influential people (as well as those who are not). They help each other and the higher you are on the social ladder the more secrets you are let into in the group. They are so sucessful that its hard to say what they do - its so secret. Nevertheless I treat these "crooks" with the deepest respect - not to them, but to their office.
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RE: The Monarchy versus Presidency

Post by DodgeFB » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:41 pm

[quote=Lad]
You respect his office. I think this is where people get muddled. I hate our government - I think it is a immoral and deceitful bunch of men that have caused a lot of problems for many in this world. However I would treat the PM and any of his men with the deepest respect.

Many of our judges are doing exactly what yours does (except it is extremely secret) and a large number are known to be members of the Free Masons. The Free Masons are a secret society just for men. They are made up of very powerful and influential people (as well as those who are not). They help each other and the higher you are on the social ladder the more secrets you are let into in the group. They are so sucessful that its hard to say what they do - its so secret. Nevertheless I treat these "crooks" with the deepest respect - not to them, but to their office.
[/quote]

We have those Free Masons too. I have a brother-in-law/ outlaw that is one. I must say he lives very well!Image
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RE: The Monarchy versus Presidency

Post by Romulus111VADT » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:25 am

As with all endeavors in life. There are good people and there are bad people. Same goes in every profession. There are good Presidents and good monarchs. But equally, there are bad in both. King Henry VIII was literally a royal pain in the neck to many of his subjects. President Carter was pretty infective as a president goes.

If memory serves me correct. The British monarchy is largely a figure head and has no real power. Aren't all laws made and enforced by Parliament?

The US Presidency is a very powerful position yes. But they are ultimately subject to the people. This is why we have impeachments. The Presidency of the US is constantly being called on to help remedy all the ills of the world. As with any human endeavor. Some are handled well and some are handled poorly. Here lately, the US has been on the very poorly side of the scale. Bush should have stayed out of Iraq at least until Afghanistan was finished.

During WWII, 50% of Americans felt that FDR was doing a poor job running the war. Death tolls were incredibly high and all of America was under rationing. But in the end, the entire world was glad that Hitler and Tojo were gone.

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